31knots Interview.txt //09.07.2008

Es ist Juli 2008 und während wir noch immer mit dem Server kämpfen, möchten wir euch doch das Interview mit Joe Haege und Jay Pelluci von den 31knots nicht vorenthalten, das wir im letzten Jahr in Berlin aufnehmen durften. Da die Gespräche in unseren Videos immer auf ein kompaktes Maß zusammengefügt werden, könnt ihr hier auch erstmals den gesamten Inhalt ungefiltert bekommen.

Die Knoten sind im November übrigens wieder in Deutschland, mit ihrem neuen Album “Worried Well”.

Well first of all thanks for having this interview with us.
Joe: Absolutely!

Could you please tell us who you are and what you are doing in the band?
Joe: Yes, I am Joe Haege and I am the guitarist and the singer. And I do the samples.
Jay: And I am Jay Pellici and I just play the drums.
Joe: And you record the albums.
Jay: Oh that’s right, I do that too.

Ok, so the first question is: How would you describe your music to a deaf person?
Joe: Wow, that’s a great question. Uhm, I would describe it by saying it’s a not so constant vibration that they feel in very low rumbles and very..
Jay: Or sometimes a drill. (points at his head)
Joe: Yeah, like a drill. Like a drill, refrigerator or - a bomb.

Looking back at at the development of your music - 31knots is now nine years old - where would you say is your point now? Do you have a goal that you want to reach in the development of your music?
Joe: I think the only goal that we have is to keep developing. And maybe not in anything particular, just to make sure we keep making music we enjoy.
Jay: Well I don’t really think, at least on my part of things, that there’s a conscious decision into like “I think we should do this”. It’s just “let’s play music”.

And in this development, how important are the shorter albums, the EPs?
Joe: I think for a while we were just very full of creativeness and wanted to write a lot of songs. And also, we had a space between labels and so we just released an EP for Japan and then Polyvinyl ended up putting it out.
Jay: It’s kind of a good way also, like let’s say you record 16 songs for a record. But then you listen to all these songs over and over again and maybe only 10 or 12 of them feel like they should go together for a record. Then you have these other songs and you worked really hard and then you don’t want to just throw them away. And then you’re like “Oh, an EP would be nice”
Joe: “Here’s the song, we don’t need it. Ah, throw it away!”

You released Polemics before your new album now - so it’s not a completely different branch or some sort of a space where you can have a bit more artistic freedom?
Joe: A little. I think we chose the songs that seemed maybe - at least to me it seemed like they are..
Jay: I think they are more abstract songs.
Joe: Yeah, they’re more abstract and maybe also at some points more like our old songs in certain ways. And so we tried to make the album songs more cohesive and more exact in a certain area. And the EP songs are more abstract.
Jay: In a way it feels a little bit more comfortable to experiment and just try something really more out there on an EP than on an album.

You just mentioned yourself that you changed labels, I think you’re now at the third label..
Joe: Yeah..
Jay: Is it the third label?
Joe: Yeah because we did for 54°40‘, then Own..
Jay: Ah, ok.

..so are you happy now with the label you found?
Joe: Well, we had only two labels in the US, Polyvinyl was our second label in the US. So we moved from Own in Europe to just Polyvinyl. And I am happy because it’s just one label and it’s one less thing to worry about. And they’re very great guys. They’re very friendly to the artists on our label, they treat them very well and listen to us and they wanna know how we want to make music, how we want to promote music. And that’s - not a lot of labels are like that.
Jay: And they’re just really nice guys, like you can talk to them and just hang out like you’re hanging out with friends. Some of these people that are running record labels - they might be nice people but you try to hang out with them and talk just talk about normal everyday things.. it just feels a little bit strange and stiff and everything.

Because many bands end up creating their own label after getting really annoyed by how they are treated or how their music is promoted. Has that ever occurred to you?
Joe&Jay: Noooo (laugh).
Joe: No, I think we both started.. the first 31knots album and his first band, Dilute, we both released albums on our own and.. There was a time when DIY was more romantic and more affective and I just think it’s very difficult now. You have the independent music world using publicists all the time for music and that didn’t happen 20 years ago. So, I think it’s just very different now and I would not like to self-release anymore. It’s too much work and you’re not playing music. You’re playing business.
Jay: Yeah, it’s way too stressful and you end up doing everything that you don’t want to be doing. Everything that’s related to music kind of sours a little bit.

I was wondering when I was looking at your band homepage that you don’t list your old albums, like your first. Is this because maybe you don’t like them anymore or..?
Joe: No, I would call that genuine laziness. That means one more page of little pictures that I have to line up.. I think about doing that, putting them all on there. But sometimes I like the idea of it’s a band that people discover and if they find an album they’ll find more and I think it’s nice to have a little mystery in the day and age of the internet. It’s so easy to find everything. I mean, you got a wikipedia, there are all our records. So, the idea of having all on our website.. I don’t know. It’s not a.. the main reason is lazy.

But you still like your old albums? Because some bands say that they have developed from there and don’t consider it to be “their” album anymore.
Joe: I don’t know, I would say the bass player, Jay, he .. I don’t think he likes any of our old albums. And, I do, they are part of our growth of a band and he (points at Jay) was..
Jay: I was on two, two and a half albums and one EP and those ones.. since I was a fan before I was in the band so I still like those records. Then of course, the ones that I am on - I guess these songs are ok (laughs).
Joe: And he also recorded them.
Jay: I heard them about a thousand billion times… Actually I still like most, there’s always like, I think for most people there’s always a couple of songs on a record that when everything is done you’re not like exactly 100% happy with. But then there’s other songs that you can listen to like 10 years later and say that song turned out great. And I feel that way about all the records.

Speaking of the character of your band. Could you please describe how you end up having a complete song? Like, who writes what and so on. Because I know you’re living in different cities..
Joe: Yeah he (Jay) lives in San Francisco and the bass player and I live in Portland. Uhm, it’s changed a lot. Before he (Jay) was in the band it was more completely democratic way where we, the bass player and I would write a song and practice with our drummer and he wouldn’t like certain parts. And so we’d have to change and.. it became a lot more technical because of that. And sometimes good and sometimes very bad. Since Pellici has been in the band, which is now - 5 years, it’s been a while. But it seems to be, either I will send him songs just on a CD and say “These are demos, listen to them, get an idea” and then he’ll come up when we play a show and we practice for four or five days. But we always have at least one song per album that is just.. we’re there practicing, working on songs and we want so bad to be like a normal band and just be able to write a song!
Jay: And something new is lying around and somebody’s like “ooh what’s that” and so on..
Joe: Official jams.
Jay: We also do a lot of commercials, like fake songs for commercials. That’s maybe like 30% of our practice.
Joe: Probably, yeah. We spend 30% of any practice time, which is not much, doing fake commercials or we do cliche songs like Radiohead or Emo-bands..
Jay: ..or like, Smashing Pumpkins style..
Joe: ..Smashing Pumpkins, Grunge. We try to sound like Highschool-bands. It’s fun.
Jay: Or totally out of the line bands.
Joe: Or totally out of the line - I do some spoken word in practice.
Jay: That’s pretty good!
Joe: Yeah..
Jay: Some day I want to do a whole album of just that. Not as 31knots of course, but..
Joe: Maybe, we’d probably make more money.
Jay: It would be really funny though.

Is the recording machine running while you’re doing this stuff?
Joe: No, sometimes some get captured when we’re recording.
Jay: So far we.. all of our full-lengths have been recorded on a tape and so it’s so expensive that usually it’s like we’re budgeting within like “I think we have about 40 minutes for songs, let’s get 50 minutes of tape”. And it’s just a nightmare. Usually, if we manage to have a magical 45 seconds at the end then we’ll bust out and do a jam. That’s that.
Joe: That’s that, yeah.

You mentioned the problems with financing yourself.. I think that 31knots does not pay off in a way that you can say “I’m just doing 31knots and that’s it”.
Joe: (laughs) No, it doesn’t.
Jay: Nope.

I heard that you work in a bar?
Joe: Yeah..

So, do you feel like that you get the respect as an artist if you don’t get the financial gratitude?
Jay: That depends who..
Joe: It depends who you’re talking to, what country you’re in. I don’t know, I think maybe it’s because we’re from America but it seems that when we come to Europe that people are.. even if we have to have day jobs, people respect the art we do. And even if they don’t like our music, they respect that we’re trying to make art. But in the US you’re just another band and if you’re not selling records then you’re not really ’successful’.
Jay: I mean, it depends. There’s mutual respect and everything. But you know, from some other PR companies and these all other publicists - not really.
Joe: Yeah it’s a weird thing: You’re dealing with business and you’re dealing with art and business crossing over. And it’s not the easiest thing to accept or deal with all the time. It’s great when you are selling records but when people don’t like something that means they’re not buying it so you’re not making money so you’re losing money AND people don’t like what you’re doing. It’s very difficult, very difficult for me. But in the same time you have to keep in perspective that art is a very opinion-based thing and everyone’s got an opinion.
Jay: Yeah, it’s purely subjective. Kind of annoying sometimes (laughs)

Now I think that you have a maybe small but strong fan base. Do you think that you can reach a level where your music gets known by a broader audience? Or do you think you will stay at this point that you have, like I said, a small fan base and that’s it?
Joe: I think it could, yes. I think a lot of it has been..
Jay: I guess by broad it, you know not like.. commercial radio broad but maybe.. a little bit more.
Joe: Maybe like the larger indie world but not Linkin Park.. with the rapper.
Jay: Yeah with the rapper.
Joe: They don’t have the rapper anymore, it’s very sad.
Jay: It’s been a debate on this whole tour: Is the rapper fired or…
Joe: Yeah he’s not in the new video. Which is a little upsetting to me.
Jay: We only really watch music video channels when we’re on tour because nobody has cable television back home so..
Joe: And they don’t play videos in the states anymore. MTV has no videos, it’s just..
Jay: MTV2 used to have videos and MTV1 had all these crazy reality shows and stuff. Now MTV2 has all reality shows and then VH1 is like that too..
Joe: I guess they have MTV University now, so maybe they show an hour of videos there? Uuh.. To answer your question though.. Yes, I think we could reach a bigger, broader audience and I think lot of it is just luck of marketing and people seeing you. Because it comes down to people knowing about the album or the shows.
Jay: Your existence.
Joe: Yeah, and wherever people know about our existence we do really well. But, we’ve had bad luck with media in the States and you know, it makes it difficult. I think the biggest thing is that we make music that’s maybe not completely commercial. So sometimes writers or magazines can be less excited about it. But then again other magazines are very excited when you write music like that.
Jay: We usually think of our songs as like pop songs. “Yeah they’re catchy” and then you read a review and it says something like “Oh well, you know give it two or three listens or four” you know and I’m like “Oh ok it’s not as catchy as I thought it was”.
Joe: Yeah, it’s very strange. People always think we have a very experimental side and with every album we think we get poppier and poppier. Not that we try, it’s just what we want to write. But it’s so strange when people call us popmusic I wonder what they would think if they heard Ornette Coleman or John Zorn or old industrial Bands. That shit is really..

Do you think it’s maybe a process of aging? That you get less wild, more calm..?
Joe: Maybe, it could be. I think for me, it’s also touring. You hear rock every night. And you hear bands every night. And sometimes to want to write more songs in that way can be.. not exciting. But I think for us, we still like to. I still like to play loud guitar and sing loud.. But I think, it’s very natural progression.
Jay: It’s do to something different or a little bit different at least. Not to stay on this course of doing records that you could.. you know where you could listen to three records and you can’t tell which record a song is from.
Joe: Yeah, that’s frustrating to me.

Speaking of touring, I was always wondering if it’s any fun at all. If you really have to travel from the US here, and then move to a different city every day, play a show every night, have crappy food for catering.. (Joe laughs) Is it really worth the effort to do? And then maybe you play in front of not so many people.. How do you feel about this?
Jay: For me personally, in Europe in general, it’s totally worth it. Maybe it’s because of having toured in the United States for so long that however bad people may think it is here, it’s maybe one hundred times worse over there. So, whenever we come here, it’s like paradise. We’re like “oh there’s food” and we have a place to stay. And people are nice and friendly..
Joe: Yeah, they make sure that you get a sound check. That doesn’t happen in the US.
Jay: Or it’s that you have something to eat. Even if it’s just bread and cheese but it’s something to eat. If you have been traveling all day..
Joe: The drives are shorter.
Jay: Oh yeah.
Joe: For us, we play in front of more people here than we do in the US. Most nights. There’s so much driving in the US. And then you get there, you don’t get food. You maybe, maybe get a sound check. You probably won’t have a place to stay. And none cares if you do or not. You just have to find it yourself. So, touring in Europe is so much easier that it seems completely worth it. The US.. I don’t know. I think we’re all struggling right now with the fact that if the US just isn’t worth it for us. Because..
Jay: You might drive.. some drives are over 12 hours. Wake up early, play a show, sleep, wake up really early and maybe get 4 hours of sleep and drive for 12 hours, get to the club, unload, sound check if you get a sound check, load in until the show starts.
Joe: And then you maybe get 2 cheap beers for free. If that. But as far as that is.. Well you’re the first person to say that in Europe. Most people.. well I guess maybe people in the US when they think “oh you’re going to tour, you’re going to Europe, it is so exciting” and it is! I love coming over here. But it is work still and you still have to get up every day and go through it.
Jay: It’s not like you can, you know like “oh we’re going to Berlin so we can go check out all the sites and everything”. It’s just: Go to the club, see a couple of blocks around the club and whatever you saw on the drive in. And then - which is still better than nothing. And you get to meet a lot of really nice people and and things that you wouldn’t meet if you were just a tourist and that’s a big benefit of traveling this way. The downside of course is that you have no time to see anything or do anything. Whatever you say is just on the highway or else around the club.

Another thing about your live shows: On your albums the songs have different layers with samples and background vocals. And then you’re coming to play shows with only 3 people on stage. How do you transfer the songs to this kind of presentation?
Joe: (laughs) Smoke and mirrors. Uh, a lot of samplers and we just try to.. for each release we have more and more samples and more electronic sounds. But I always try when I’m working on the songs to think of how it could be done live. And some things I don’t feel bad having pre-recorded, but I don’t wanna have 4 guitar parts in a sampler and play along to them. But I will have piano because we can’t afford to bring a piano with us, or a piano player.
Jay: Or a choir.
Joe: Or a choir, or strings or horns. So, those things are pretty easy and I think for us, we justify samples with if it’s anything that we can’t do we allow ourselves to rely on samplers.
Jay: And I think that part of it.. a lot of the songs that rely on samplers, I think that especially Joe and Jay make sure the performance is still very energetic and it’s not like just playing guitar to these samples but like lots of other things going on too. And I think that makes a big difference. The presentation of it.
Joe: I mean, that’s the main thing I feel. It’s the only reason why I don’t feel bad using samplers as much as we do is that for me it allows me to have more freedom on stage. And I don’t have to think about hitting every note all the time and I can just sing and kind of act more in character. Which is great because it makes it more unique and it’s something you can’t get on the album.

Would you say that the songs that you present live can be compared to the songs on the album or maybe they are different versions of it?
Joe: Some are a little different, yeah.
Jay: I think this record might be the first record that we’ve done where the energy of the recording comes close to our live show.
Joe: Yeah, I think we’ve been frustrated in the past with our recordings not being as intense as our live show. And I think this time I was more concerned about going on tour and having the songs sound as good live as they do on the record. Which was great, that was the first time to have that concern. But it’s worked out very well and we tried to make it a little more unique than the album song. But it’s working so far, I think.
Jay: So far, yeah (laughs).

Would you consider yourself as a political band?
Joe: No, no. I mean it’s difficult because I write all the words but I don’t ever wanna put the other two members.. I don’t wanna take their voice and make it mine. So I try to have - at least with the words I try to.. Everyone thinks about political things and politics are in everything, in every aspect of life. And I think, in the last 50 years, maybe from the 1960s until now it’s become more and more of a seperate category to have “political” music. And I kinda think of all music as political. And all music as emotional. I just don’t see how people can separate these things. They all seem very connected, so I just try to look at that as.. it’s what it is and sometimes I’m singing in some kind of character and sometimes I’m thinking about something that is a day to day.
Jay: As far as it means reading or listening to the lyrics I don’t think of them as being overly politically. I don’t listen or read it and think “oh this is like, you know Rage Against The Machine”
Joe: Yeah. “Down with Bush!” .. Or there’s this new Linkin Park video. ‘What I’ve Done’.. They show footage from Iraq, some guys shooting up, shooting heroin, they show an eagle flying..
Jay: And a fetus in the womb.
Joe: Yeah, it’s amazing stuff. Very political.
Jay: Makes you think. (both laugh)

Are you discussing about your lyrics then? Because you are writing them and then? Are you asking what he might mean?
Jay: Oh, no. He just does it.
Joe: They never ask. Sometimes, I try to keep in my mind what they might think of the words. And I know sometimes maybe they don’t completely agree with them. But it’s the thing that if there’s singing that is supposed to be in a song and I’m the one that writes words that’s the freedom that I allow myself to have. But I try not to abuse it. I hope I don’t?
Jay: Nah, it’s ok.

For me, your lyrics are quite .. or let me ask you instead: Do you think that there’s a constant theme throughout your lyrics?
Joe: Yeah, I guess there has started to be. The main thing I guess is just how I look at the world or how I write. It sounds kind of cliche but I have tried to create my own voice and create my way of putting words together. But I also try to keep developing my technique. But yeah, I think I’ve definitely.. I used to be someone who always writes words about what was going on in my head and then I think I grew up a little and began to see the world around me. And began to think about what was going on in other people’s heads. And what’s going on in the head of many at one time. And sometimes it’s just fun to play with language, to put words together that are uncommon or not always put together. So, I think that’s .. I tried to create a voice and I like to have a theme - but I never tried to be so determined to have a theme. I try to let it come naturally.

Do you consider your voice as an additional instrument or is it something completely different?
Joe: I guess it’s a little bit of both. The songs where we “jam” and those become become songs for the band. Those ones I think my voice ends up being more of an instrument. Because I sat there and I want to hear another melody on top of the base and guitar and my voice is the next available thing. But sometimes I like the idea of having the words help create the extra layer to the song. So, I think the voice is always going to be another instrument but sometimes it’s difficult to chose the line if you go more into lyrics or you go more into the sound of the voice. And I try to do both I guess.
WR: Will there ever be a 31knots track that has some happy lyrics?
(Both laugh out loud)
Jay: After touring with you for how many years..
Joe: You say it..
Jay: I say no. Not a chance.
Joe: I’m a cynical man, I admit it. There’s plenty of people making happy music and I think happiness is represented quite well in the world. I could rattle off a million movies and records and songs and talk about good things.. and I don’t wanna talk about bad things because as many people talk about bad things.. but I feel that one thing that doesn’t get talked about enough or at least sung in songs is just kind of the reality of the world not being the greatest place. It’s ugly in a lot of ways. There’s a lot of beauty and I try go for both, I try to incorporate the beauty. But there’s a lot of ugliness out there and I think it needs to be considered as well. (laughs) Well I guess, the cynic opens his mouth.

Do you gather support from your family or friends in Portland/San Francisco?
Jay: Surprisingly I think all of our families are really supportive of what we do. I know a lot of people where the parents are like “Why don’t you get a job and go to school, make money..” and luckily..
Joe: “..get married”
Jay: “..have some kids..” There were some points with my parents at least. When I was like 17/18 I’ve been making music for a few years and they were like “We thought this was going to be a phase.. we thought about going to school..” Now they’re just “Ah, do whatever you want, have fun, do something you enjoy”.
Joe: It’s the same with my parents and Jay’s mom. All of our parents at one point just thought that it would be a teenage thing and then we move on. But there was definitely a couple of years - like everyone who does art - where your family is like “oh no… why are you doing this”. But then they see that it makes you happier or it keeps you sane - which is equally important. And friends, I think that’s been the greatest thing about Portland for me is having so many people that make music and make art. And San Francisco too, there’s just a lot of people we know that are good friends on a level of.. we don’t see them a lot but we’re brethren in art.

Do your families listen to your songs?
Both (laughing): No.
Joe: My parents and the bass player’s mom came to one show. And they were proud, and that’s nice. They don’t get it at all but they get that it’s something they don’t understand but their son is doing it and they’re glad I’m doing what I enjoy. But for the music, no, they have no idea. They probably wonder why I’m yelling, why I take off my clothes..

And Portland itself, how is the musical scene apart from the Decemberists?
Joe: Oh, there’s an endless list of people from Portland. Sleater-Kinney is/was from there..
Jay: Parts of Modest Mouse..
Joe: Modest Mouse, The Shins, Decemberists, The Thermals.. who else is there..
Jay: Stephen Malkmus
Joe: Spoon.. it’s insane. The town has become..
Jay: Dandy Warhols
Joe: They’re all from Portland. It didn’t use to be that way, used to be.. kind of like Berlin, just a very art-city but not that popular. But in the last 10 years it has become very very popular. Because it’s cheap and there’s a lot of people making music and making art.

And do you think they influence each other?
Joe: Not on that level. There’s a lot of smaller bands. There’s so many.. oh and The Gossip, that’s another band.. I think for all those big bands there’s about 20 small bands for each big one and.. everyone has their friends. There’s friends’ bands that inspire me a lot. We have these friends, The Joggers, and they’re a great band. Menomena, which is another band from Portland, they inspire me a lot. My girlfriend plays music and she inspires me a lot. So, there’s a lot of people and Deerhoof..
Jay: Yeah, Deerhoof or The Curtains or bands like that. They’re really great.

The last theme I wanted to ask you about is the future of music. What do you think the whole music - business on one part and artists on the other - will develop to in the next 20 years? Considering that you can publish your music easier now and have more access to it through Internet and other forms.
Jay: I don’t know - if you asked somebody the same question 20 years ago..
Joe: ..they’d have no idea. I could say for the next 5 years it’s either.. there’s going to be a way that the massive corporations figure out how to hold on to their little world and control the media.. more. But I think something great is happening right now, where people are having more access to things. And they’re discovering more music. But there’s also a lot more crap that kind of fills the pipes. So I think in the next 5 years I hope that people discover live music more and realize that it’s so easy to go on the computer and listen to anything. Maybe if you hear of a band that’s touring and where people say they put on a good show - I know for me that’s a huge thing, if I can see a band and they can play a show - even if it doesn’t sound like their records - that means something. It’s more of a connection. There will always be good music and it’s easy to find now. You can find great music from 1901 and great music from right now.
Jay: People are digging up all sorts of stuff, it’s great. Music from Ghana and .. wherever, all sorts of places.
Joe: But I think it’s going to get worse on the major label level. But independent music is very strong right now.
Jay: I think maybe CDs will eventually become a thing of the past. Everybody just downloads music, whether legitimately or not, nowadays the just get it from iTunes or from this and this website. The one thing that I miss there is the album art. I think that so many people are downloading these days that you don’t even know what.. Lots of bands who put together a record have this whole package in mind, there’s this album that may or may not have this theme and then you have this artwork that goes along with it and may or may not mean something.. When you download stuff a lot of times you don’t get artwork. It would be cool in the future if it’s all mp3 and stuff, if you still get at least a little piece of artwork that’s like, a picture and words and stuff you can actually touch with your hands and put on your wall and do something with instead of just turning your computer on, looking at this piece of thing [makes a small square with his hands] and you blow it up and it’s pixelated…
Joe: Yeah, for free is the 300 dpi, or for 5,95… Uhm I think there might be actually a phase in the next 10 years where younger people who are now 10 years old and that are downloading music, the ones that go and get into music, will be more and more about having something they can touch. Because now they don’t. And they don’t care because they don’t know. They don’t know what it’s like to have an album and listen to the album and just kind of look at it. And to me, I think it’s really nice. There’s more poetry to it, to look at the colors of an album and they kind of make you think of the color of the music.

So is digital distribution a threat because you can download music illegitimately or is it more of a chance in that you have more access to different types of music in a more convenient way?
Jay: I think it’s both.
Joe: Yeah, I think it’s both. Right now it’s ..
Jay: For sure there’s so much music that’s being downloaded illegitimately that it’s unbelievable but at the same time, for better or for worse, theoretically more people are having access to our music that would otherwise have to go buy and maybe wouldn’t go and spend 10 or 15 $ for a CD.. I don’t know
Joe: People said the same thing when you started to go to record stores and you could listen to the whole album in the record store. “What’s the point of this, none’s going to wanna buy it”, you know. I think it’s good, it’s a great argument that’s now happening, that people are asking themselves and asking other people: “Why would I buy the record when I can get it for free?”. And it comes to the main point, that it’s an artist that you’re supporting. And if it’s Linkin Park, I don’t know if they need that support or if their music.. or maybe Gwen Stefani or something like that. It’s pop music, that’s more advertising to me. But to buy a record of an artist, it’s your way of helping them and they are helping you or entertaining you, doing something for you. And it’s a way you can help them continue. So I think it’s a great era to be in right now. Where people are actually asking themselves “Why do I buy music? Why don’t I buy music?”